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Author	Topic: Updates to my Archives site
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 23, 2003 10:52 AM This week I've added maps for Adam Strange, the Creeper, the Hawk and the Dove, Metal Men, Mr. and Mrs. Superman, Sugar & Spike, Superman Team-Ups and Superman: The Man of Steel (Bronze Age Superman). I'm currently working on maps for Tomahawk and Mary Marvel. IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 23, 2003 10:55 AM Oops. Here's the correct link for Sugar & Spike. IP: Logged
Carsda Member	posted April 23, 2003 11:16 AM in your SUPERMAN: MAN OF STEEL ARCHIVES map, why is it that the first volume is all SUPERMAN, the 2nd is all SUPERMAN except for one issue of ACTION, and then it starts doing SUPERMAN & ACTION? does this have something to do with that sand-superman story? IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 23, 2003 01:13 PM quote: Originally posted by Carsda: in your SUPERMAN: MAN OF STEEL ARCHIVES map, why is it that the first volume is all SUPERMAN, the 2nd is all SUPERMAN except for one issue of ACTION, and then it starts doing SUPERMAN & ACTION? does this have something to do with that sand-superman story? In addition to wanting the Sand-Superman story complete in Vol. 1, I also decided that the issues of Action Comics edited by Murray Boltinoff belonged in the Silver Age Superman Archives (Superman: The Man of Tomorrow). Superman: The Man of Tomorrow would collect the complete Julius Schwartz Superman. (Schwartz became editor of Action a few months after he took over Superman.) IP: Logged
JoeAnkenbauer Member	posted April 23, 2003 01:27 PM quote: Originally posted by Owen Cardiff Darcy: This week I've added maps for Adam Strange, the Creeper, the Hawk and the Dove, Metal Men, Mr. and Mrs. Superman, Sugar & Spike, Superman Team-Ups and Superman: The Man of Steel (Bronze Age Superman). I'm currently working on maps for Tomahawk and Mary Marvel. This is not a criticism, just a question. I was looking at your maps for the Metal Men. Shouldn't The Brave & The Bold issue (#55) be moved to the 2nd volume, perhaps between issues #9 and #10, so it follows a more chronological order? JMA IP: Logged
datalore Member	posted April 23, 2003 03:26 PM More an addition than anything... ...if possible, move one of the Eclipso stories from his second volume back to the first and add this little two part story to the second volume: Adventure Comics 457 - May-June 1976 Story: "The Symbiont Syndrome" (6 pages) Writer: Len Wein Penciller: Joe Orlando Inker: Frank Giacoia Letterer: Shelly Leferman Colorist: Glynis Wein Editor: Paul Levitz Feature Character: Eclipso Synopsis: The bond between Eclipso and Bruce Gordon is broken, but unless they can be re-merged, Bruce Gordon may die. Adventure Comics No. 458 July-August 1976 Story: "He Who Survives" (6 pages) Writer: Len Wein Penciller: Joe Orlando Inker: Bob Layton Letterer: Gaspar Saladino Colorist: Glynis Wein Editor: Paul Levitz Feature Character: Eclipso Synopsis: Bruce Gordon and his friends fight to re-merge him to Eclipso. ------------------ "A nineteenth-century scientist, Thomas Huxley, once asked, 'If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, then how much knowledge does a person need before they're safe?' ... The answer is, they'll never be safe again." � Darien Fawkes of the Invisible Man, "The Value of Secrets" IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 23, 2003 08:08 PM quote: Originally posted by JoeAnkenbauer: This is not a criticism, just a question. I was looking at your maps for the Metal Men. Shouldn't The Brave & The Bold issue (#55) be moved to the 2nd volume, perhaps between issues #9 and #10, so it follows a more chronological order? JMA Metal Men #3-6 is a 4-part story. If I included those issues in Vol. 1 instead of B&B #55, Vol. 1 would be 272 pages. So instead I moved MM #3-6 to Vol. 2, and included B&B #55 in Vol.1 so that the book would be a normal-sized 200+ page volume. IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 23, 2003 08:12 PM quote: Originally posted by datalore: More an addition than anything... ...if possible, move one of the Eclipso stories from his second volume back to the first and add this little two part story to the second volume: Adventure Comics 457 - May-June 1976 Story: "The Symbiont Syndrome" (6 pages) Writer: Len Wein Penciller: Joe Orlando Inker: Frank Giacoia Letterer: Shelly Leferman Colorist: Glynis Wein Editor: Paul Levitz Feature Character: Eclipso Synopsis: The bond between Eclipso and Bruce Gordon is broken, but unless they can be re-merged, Bruce Gordon may die. Adventure Comics No. 458 July-August 1976 Story: "He Who Survives" (6 pages) Writer: Len Wein Penciller: Joe Orlando Inker: Bob Layton Letterer: Gaspar Saladino Colorist: Glynis Wein Editor: Paul Levitz Feature Character: Eclipso Synopsis: Bruce Gordon and his friends fight to re-merge him to Eclipso. And I suppose someone might want that Eclipso series from the early '90s in hardcover, too. I only wanted the Bob Haney stories from House of Secrets in the Eclipso Archives, which is why I mapped out two skinny volumes. IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 23, 2003 08:38 PM Chris Rednour has created cover mock-ups for all 6 volumes of the Kid Eternity Archives. Thanks, Chris. http://futurearchives.tripod.com/kideternity.html (He also did the Mr. and Mrs. Superman mock-up.) IP: Logged
arromdee New Member	posted April 24, 2003 01:26 AM Superman Teamups needs the covers from Best of DC Digest #13, 48, and #66. Metal Men needs the cover to #34. See http://www.comicdigests.com/dc.htm . Man of Steel Archives is going to need a huge number of digest covers and tabloid covers, as well as other peripheral material, including several actual stories as well as covers (unless you're going to archive, say, DC Special Series separately). Even the TRS-80 giveaway would have to go in there. (And one TRS-80 giveaway had Superman with Wonder Woman and would have to go in Superman teamups...) I'd suggest getting a list of all the digests, tabloids, giveaways, DC Special, etc. in advance and only then doing maps, except there's no way I'd do such a task myself. Adam Strange needs the covers for Strange Adventures #217-222,224,235, 241-243 and DC Superstars 2, 4, 6, and 8. For Eclipso, I really don't like the idea of having thin volumes so that you can only do a single creator. (And I don't like it any better for Challengers.) It may be somewhat necessary for Eclipso because including the 90's stories obviously makes no sense, but I don't see what's wrong with the 1976 Adventure story--where else are you going to put it, after all? IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 24, 2003 03:31 AM quote: Originally posted by arromdee: Superman Teamups needs the covers from Best of DC Digest #13, 48, and #66. Metal Men needs the cover to #34. See http://www.comicdigests.com/dc.htm . Man of Steel Archives is going to need a huge number of digest covers and tabloid covers, as well as other peripheral material, including several actual stories as well as covers (unless you're going to archive, say, DC Special Series separately). Even the TRS-80 giveaway would have to go in there. (And one TRS-80 giveaway had Superman with Wonder Woman and would have to go in Superman teamups...) I'd suggest getting a list of all the digests, tabloids, giveaways, DC Special, etc. in advance and only then doing maps, except there's no way I'd do such a task myself. Adam Strange needs the covers for Strange Adventures #217-222,224,235, 241-243 and DC Superstars 2, 4, 6, and 8. Including all those reprint covers is too much trouble. If you look through the Superman: The Man of Steel map, you'll see that I tried to include all of Superman's solo stories, not just issues of Superman and Action, but various one-shots, specials, annuals, tabloids, giveaways, etc. Yes, even the Radio Shack giveaways. If I missed a story, let me know. IP: Logged
arromdee New Member	posted April 24, 2003 10:41 AM quote: Originally posted by Owen Cardiff Darcy: Including all those reprint covers is too much trouble. I used www.dcindexes.com for the covers. There are lots of covers online there, and it really didn't take that long at all to look at the covers and find more Adam Strange issues. Sure, covers aren't stories, but they're artwork published in comic books featuring a character. Sorry about not noticing the other Superman issues, though. IP: Logged
Osgood Peabody Member	posted April 24, 2003 01:02 PM quote: Originally posted by Owen Cardiff Darcy: Metal Men #3-6 is a 4-part story. If I included those issues in Vol. 1 instead of B&B #55, Vol. 1 would be 272 pages. So instead I moved MM #3-6 to Vol. 2, and included B&B #55 in Vol.1 so that the book would be a normal-sized 200+ page volume. I'm by no means an expert on early Metal Men, but I took a closer look at Mike's synopsis at the DC index site, and the multi-part storyline looks like it goes from 2 through 5. I know DarkMark has it going through 6, and there may be some reference back to 5, but not a continuous story. Maybe if someone has the issues in question they can validate this. If this proves to be the case, then I think a volume 1 having the 4 Showcase issues and first 5 MM issues is the way to go, coming in slightly oversized at 236 pages (252 total?). Who knew Bob Kanigher was weaving these multi-part sagas back in '63? Was he paying that much attention to Marvel at the time? It seems such a departure from the other contemporary DC fare - 2 parters being even rare back then! Interesting... IP: Logged
dcexplosion78 Member	posted April 24, 2003 03:57 PM quote: Originally posted by arromdee: I used www.dcindexes.com for the covers. There are lots of covers online there, and it really didn't take that long at all to look at the covers and find more Adam Strange issues. Sure, covers aren't stories, but they're artwork published in comic books featuring a character. Sorry about not noticing the other Superman issues, though. Great idea about the Digest covers in Archives! NEW TEEN TITANS should definitely include the BODC #18 cover which may be a given since there is an original story to include in the Archives. As for other lines, LEGION is the one next nearing the 80s. It would be cool to have the DC Special Digest and Adventure covers in those volumes. IP: Logged
Kamandi2 Member	posted April 24, 2003 04:23 PM Plus one of the Legion digests had a new story with art, IIRC, by Carmine Infantino. IP: Logged
India Ink Member	posted April 24, 2003 06:46 PM Speaking of metal men (and who wasn't!), since it's a BRONZE age archive, shouldn't Superman: The Man of Steel Archive actually be titled Superman: The Man of Bronze Archive? (Just a joke! couldn't resist--somebody had to go for the cheap laugh!) IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 24, 2003 09:24 PM New stories which appeared in digests should definitely be reprinted, and I've included those I know of in my maps. As for covers of reprint issues, they're a nice bonus if there's room for them. Legion Archives Vol. 12, for example, reprints the covers of the 4-issues LSH reprint series from the early '70s. If DC had insisted on adhering to strict chronological order, those covers would have appeared in Vol. 10, but there wasn't room for them in Vol. 10. In the Adam Strange Archives I've mapped out, Vol. 4 is already is 256-page volume, so there's no room for those Strange Adventures covers. I just looked at DarkMark's Metal Men index again, and the continued story is in # 2 - 6. I'll fix that later. IP: Logged
arromdee New Member	posted April 25, 2003 01:57 AM quote: In the Adam Strange Archives I've mapped out, Vol. 4 is already is 256-page volume, so there's no room for those Strange Adventures covers. later.[/B] Well, it's doable if you're okay with two 256 page (or 252 page) volumes. Just move the first story from V4 to V3 and do the covers in V4 at half size. Alternately, take the non-Adam-Strange covers out of volume 3 and move the first two stories from V4 into it. Volume 3 would then be 248/256. Put the covers in V4 and it would be 233/240. IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 25, 2003 04:30 AM Based on the story synopses in DarkMark's Metal Men index, the continued story in MM #2-6 appears to be episodic, consisting of a series of adventures loosely linked together. This makes sense, since a true 5-issue stoyline doesn't seem likely in an early '60s DC comic. So I decided there's not much harm in breaking those 5 issues apart. I tried as best I could not to break apart the continued stories in later issues, and left out the Brave & Bold team-ups (which really belong in the Brave & Bold Archives). The result is 6 volumes instead of 7. If someone has a better solution, please let me know. As for Adam Strange, is there anyone else who thinks I should re-map the whole series just to make room for some covers? IP: Logged
NecessaryImpurity Member	posted April 25, 2003 12:21 PM For stories that span volumes, I think the best policy is for DC to solicit both books simultaneously, offered as a pair in the same month. That just solves so many problems. IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 25, 2003 01:28 PM quote: Originally posted by NecessaryImpurity: For stories that span volumes, I think the best policy is for DC to solicit both books simultaneously, offered as a pair in the same month. That just solves so many problems. Two $50 Metal Men books released in the same month?! We'll be lucky if we get two in the same decade. IP: Logged
NecessaryImpurity Member	posted April 25, 2003 02:52 PM quote: Originally posted by Owen Cardiff Darcy: [b]Two $50 Metal Men books released in the same month?! We'll be lucky if we get two in the same decade.[/B] True enough. I'm thinking more about the Bronze Age, where cross-overs and extended story arcs become more common. It might be easiest to issue two volumes simultaneously, rather than contort the sizes of the volumes and the order of the stories. Everyone's concern is the large wait between volumes. A 4-year cliff-hanger isn't acceptable. If the books come out at the same time, that concern evaporates. IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 25, 2003 05:17 PM quote: Originally posted by NecessaryImpurity: A 4-year cliff-hanger isn't acceptable. Those of us who had to wait 3 years between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi can endure a 2-4 year wait between Metal Men Vols. 1 and 2. IP: Logged
NecessaryImpurity Member	posted April 25, 2003 08:42 PM quote: Originally posted by Owen Cardiff Darcy: *Those of us who had to wait 3 years between The Empire Strikes Back* and Return of the Jedi can endure a 2-4 year wait between Metal Men Vols. 1 and 2.** Unlike the JLA/JSA cross-overs, which were 50-page stories spanning 2 issues, the early Metal Men stories appear to be several separate stories that compose a bigger picture. The same way Asimov's "Foundation" stories are episodes in a larger tale. Thus, it might be acceptable to break-up the Metal Men in mid-arc, since each story stands on its own. But wholly unacceptable to halt a Justice League Archive in the middle of a JLA/JSA crossover. The era the Legion is approaching, and New Teen Titans is already in, is full of 2- and 3-part stories, and tales that cross from one magazine to another and back. These are the Archives that might need a double solicitation, or else go through size and placement contortions to get everything in one book. IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted April 26, 2003 02:22 AM quote: Originally posted by NecessaryImpurity: Unlike the JLA/JSA cross-overs, which were 50-page stories spanning 2 issues, the early Metal Men stories appear to be several separate stories that compose a bigger picture. The same way Asimov's "Foundation" stories are episodes in a larger tale. Thus, it might be acceptable to break-up the Metal Men in mid-arc, since each story stands on its own. But wholly unacceptable to halt a Justice League Archive in the middle of a JLA/JSA crossover. I agree. quote: The era the Legion is approaching, and New Teen Titans is already in, is full of 2- and 3-part stories, and tales that cross from one magazine to another and back. These are the Archives that might need a double solicitation, or else go through size and placement contortions to get everything in one book. I've mapped the Legion all the way through the '80s Levitz era (up to Vol. 39!), and managed to get everything in a series of normal-sized 208-256-page volumes without doing too much damage to the integrity of the stories -- I hope. IP: Logged

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